wiscon_vidparty | Vidding Workshop!

chaila posting in

Welcome to the

wiscon_vidparty vidding workshop! We hope this will be a chance for new or potential vidders to find out more about what’s involved in making a vid and to see the wide variety of ways vidders make vids, and for vidders of all skill levels to discuss vidding and share tips and ideas. Everyone is welcome to participate!

This workshop will be discussion- and question-based, so please, start or jump into any discussions you want to have and ask any questions about any aspect of vidding! Finding ideas, getting source, clipping (or not), editing programs, codecs, rendering, effects, specific technical issues you’re having, discussion about specific vids, discussing your own ideas, links to useful resources, tutorials, cheerleading--any and all vidding related topics are welcome.

We’ve created a few categories to keep some of the major topic threads organized. If you have a comment or question or want to start a discussion on a certain topic, just comment below the relevant subject. (We’re flexible though, so don’t fret too much about getting things in the right place. If in doubt, just give your thread a descriptive subject line so people can find it).

Feel free to add new threads if what you want to talk about isn't covered by the categories, but please give your comment a descriptive subject line so readers can tell what’s being discussed.

We have several awesome vidders who have volunteered to participate and introduce themselves at their convenience. We will be linking to their introductions as they appear. Keep an eye out and feel free to ask them specific questions!

Topics (to get you started--add your own threads and subthreads!)

• Vid Idea Development -- Finding and developing ideas for new vids

• Tech Questions -- Hardware and software (PC, Mac or Linux), codecs, aspect ratios, exporting and rendering, effects, etc.
          Questions asked/discussed:
          -- Software to use on a PC? (including discussion of Windows Movie Maker & Lightworks)
          -- Vidding with iMovie09?
          -- Codec rec: Avid DNxHD
          -- Converter recs for Macs?
          -- Linux clipping?

• Getting Started (and Finished) -- From beginning to end, how do you make a vid? Getting source, clipping, editing workflows, tips for getting started, etc.
          • Subthread: Editing workflows/processes
                --chaila (VirtualDub, Vegas, Zarx264gui)
                --heresluck (DVD Decrypter, DGIndex, Premiere, Zarx264gui)
                --thingswithwings (Handbrake, Mac the Ripper, MPEG Streamclip, Final Cut Pro, Sound Studio)
                --ghost_lingering (Adobe Premiere & AfterEffects, Mac the Ripper, and mpeg streamclip)
                --eruthros (DVD Decrypter, VirtualDub, AvsPmod, Premiere, Zarx264gui)
                --such_heights (Switch, audio editing/conversion, Final Cut)
                --beccatoria (avidemux, Cinelerra)

          • Other questions/discussion
           -- How to time clips to the beat?
           -- Using markers
           -- Approaching editing/revising? & how to deal with ambition outstripping effects/transition knowledge?
           -- Free/cheap editing software for Macs?
           -- Ripping DVDs vs. downloaded source?
           -- Note re: codecs & compression

• Links and References -- Link helpful resources from elsewhere on the internet.
          -- Various lists of resources, including subtitling
          -- Mac vidders: how to get the shiniest source
          -- Lots of links, especially about vidding creativity
          -- Panel notes on song choice
          -- A&E's Technical Guide to All Things Audio and Video
          -- Audio editing
          -- Multiple aspect ratio tutorials
          -- Understanding codecs & containers, & Autodesk software for students

• VIDDING SQUEE - All things happy, fun, and inspiring.
          • The first vid you made you're still proud of?
          • Vids/vidders that inspired us!

Meet the Vidder Threads

• Meet the Vidder: Rhi
• Meet the Vidder: metatxt
• Meet the Vidder: such heights
• Meet the Vidder: kiki_miserychic
• Meet the Vidder: Garrideb
• Meet the Vidder: ghost lingering
• Meet the Vidder: here's luck
• Meet the Vidder: chaila

ETA 3/3/14: The main part of the workshop has concluded, but please feel free to add answers or info if you've got them! We've organized a list of the threads, questions and answers for ease of browsing. And don't forget that you can sign up to be a vidding mentor to a newer vidder, or sign up to get a mentor!

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From:

chaila

Tech Questions
Technical discussion and questions (both PC and Mac) go here. From general questions about the types of clipping or editing programs that are available, to specific questions about one particular problem you’re having. Discuss hardware and software, codecs, aspect ratios, exporting and rendering, effects, &etc.

Edited Date: 2014-03-01 02:17 pm (UTC)

From:

sasha_feather

Hi! I am very fortunate to have a new PC and I am ready to load it up with software. I have VLC and iTunes so far but nothing else. What should I load it up with? :D

From:

sophinisba

I am also interested in this question because I think next time I need a new computer I might switch from Mac to PC, but I don't know what I'd do about vidding, which I've only done a little bit with iMovie so far.

From:

eruthros

It depends! I like the amv.org application pack, which conveniently includes a lot of codecs and programs and etc. It'll let you make clips and rip DVDs and stuff like that, but it doesn't include a video editing program. It's at the top of the amv.org technical guide, under "download AMVapp." I use a bunch of that software to make my clips and to convert files and deal with DVDs and stuff like that, and they have a good technical guide for those steps. (Or you can ask me, but they know way more than I do.)

For the actual "putting clips on a timeline" part of vidding, it depends on your budget and computing power and etc. Adobe Premiere Pro is expensive (but sometimes free/cheap via universities); there's a cheaper version called Premiere Elements that has fewer features but can do most editing. There's Sony Vegas (somewhat cheaper; I don't use it but I know a bunch of people who do), Windows Movie Maker (freeware; a lot of vidders really don't like it but it makes fine vids), and Lightworks (also Freeware, but not very well documented). I use Premiere, mostly because I also use Photoshop and other Creative Suite applications, but on my next computer I'm going to give Vegas and Lightworks a shot, because I'm sick of Adobe :) If you're not sure if you'll like vidding, there are trial versions of a lot of the more expensive software, or of course *ahem* versions.

From:

chaila

What

eruthros said!

A little more about the free options for PCs. WMM comes with Windows BUT if I recall correctly, they've stripped it down and made it almost unusable for vidding in recent versions. But I think you can install something like version 7 of WMM for free and still use it for vidding? (I swear I just discussed this exact issue with someone, but I can't find my convo or what made it work for them, argh. Anyone who uses WMM want to chime in here?!? You can probably also use Google to find out your options for WMM). Lightworks is free, will eventually be open source, but is still pretty new. I think it's a little less intuitive from what I've seen, so it may have more of a learning curve if you haven't used an editing program before. (There are tutorials though, so if you can learn from a tutorial it might be easy!).

Otherwise, it kind of just depends on how you make a vidding process work for you! You may only need an editing program, or you might decide you want/need to clip and want a separate program for that or that need a converter for making the final version.

This gets off from your technical question, but I'm generally of the opinion that the best way to start vidding is just to...start vidding. If you have an idea, get a version of WMM that works or try a free trial of Sony Vegas, Premiere, or whatever you decide to try, and just import some video and audio and mess around. Solve the technical issues as they arise (they will arise!), or if you decide you want to keep on with it, but don't get TOO bogged down with those questions before you even know if it's something you'll have fun with? /unsolicited advice :)

From:

quickbeam

Thank you for pointing out about Lightworks! I really want to know if there any other free apps out there for vidding, since I'm not in any capacity to fork out money for retail software.

Regarding the recent version of WMM, I had the experience of using the Windows 7 version (I don't know about Windows 8) and was simply unable to find my way around it. So right now I'm staying with the previous WMM version from Windows Vista.

Off to download Lightworks now! It looks pretty nifty. :)

From:

chaila

Ooh this is good to know about WMM! I knew there was some cutoff point, after which it was really different, but I couldn't remember where the change happened.

Keep me posted about Lightworks! I love the idea of it, but I'm *so* resistant to change and learning a new program.

From:

quickbeam

I've just installed Lightworks, and it seems like... hate at first sight? lol. Although it's definitely due to my PC's limitation, it seems that Lightwork is a pretty hefty software and the warning balloon at my taskbar keeps saying the memory's not enough. It just keeps crashing on me at this point.

From:

valika

You brave soul! I never dared to install Lightworks on my laptop, though I was curious. I wish you good luck for it! Keep us informed!

From:

beccatoria

If you have hardware issues, then I have no advice, but I at least tried out Lightworks a bit and when I opened it I had a similar reaction. Then I watched the very basic tutorial series on their official youtube channel and it started making so much more sense to me. I'm not currently using it because I have a program that I'm comfortable with, and if you do too, then there's no need to change. But I thought it might be useful to share that I really did find that watching the tutorials made a huge amount of difference to how I felt about it. (Though of course you may already have done that and still hate it!)

From:

quickbeam

Oh the hate is all about the hardware issues, hee! My PC's specs are just not strong enough to support it at the moment. Sorry for coming across as being against Lightworks itself, I thought the interface looks awesome from the get go and the tutorials are pretty intuitive enough for me to make the transition from WMM to Lightworks.

From:

quickbeam

Hello there! :) What kind of operating system are you using at the moment? I'm assuming new PCs will have some kind of pre-installed video making software bundled with it. Maybe you can search your PC and try to see if it works for you, just to get a feel of making a vid?

I myself am using the free Windows Movie Maker (WMM) version that comes with Windows Vista. I almost tried installing Windows 7 once but thankfully I remembered to check the its WMM first and I find that I really cannot work with it at all, it's like a downgraded version of the Vista WMM. So for the moment now I'm sticking with the Vista version.

From:

sasha_feather

Well, it's Windows 8, unfortunately. My computer is so new I haven't even looked around it a whole lot! Thanks for the advice-- I will check out the WMM!

From:

garrideb

So I've been using iMovie 09 which came with my laptop for my still-image vids. But I'm planning out a vid with a moving source (I'm already clipping it, I'm so excited!) and I've been hearing that only iMovie 06 is any good and that apple stripped the later versions of most features to encourage serious vidders to get Final Cut.

So I'm wondering if anyone has used iMovie 09 for vidding..? Also, what features have been vital to your vidding? Are there any features in your vidding software that you thought you'd use but never have?

From:

mammothluv

I'll be interested in this too. I'm not super skilled at vidding but I find only 06 works for me in putting the whole thing together and then I'll sometimes load into 09 at the end which seems to have cropping and coloring options that 06 doesn't. But I'd love to be able to do everything in 09 rather than jumping around. Putting the clips together and matching them with the music in 09 just doesn't seem intuitive to me at all though. I'd love if someone had some tips or tricks!

Edited Date: 2014-03-01 06:13 pm (UTC)

From:

rhivolution

I used iMovie 09 a bit to get at some source material that wasn't playing nice with FCE or my other conversion software. For me, it was sort of difficult to step from FC to iMovie because there wasn't as much detail, cuts a bit rougher, but I've seen great vids done in it. I would say give it a bash, do something for fun and see how it works for you.

Features...I rarely, RARELY use most of the filters or transitions that are available in Final Cut, partially because I feel like they just look cheesy when I do them (though others can do it well).

From:

starlady

I got pretty handy with iMovie '06 and so iMovie '09 looked like gobbeldygook to me, but if you're used to it, you can probably make it work for you just fine! Later versions definitely lack a lot of functionality for vidding, imo, however.

From:

ghost_lingering

Codec rec!

I recently discovered Avid DNxHD codec for editing. After I tragically lost Final Cut Pro in a hard drive crash, I switched to Adobe Premiere. I didn't realize at the time, but not having FCP meant that I had to switch editing codecs as well, since the codec I had been using, ProRes, only works when you have Final Cut Studio. What!!! So, the new codec I use when clipping is DNxHD. It's pretty and it's free. Yay!!! I use it on a Mac, but it looks like it is also available on Windows.

Links for more info:
http://www.avid.com/US/industries/workflow/DNxHD-Codec
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/en423319
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNxHD_codec

Anyway, I really like it and figured I would share. *g*

From:

rhivolution

Within the past year, I was forced to shift dramatically from a MacBook running Leopard to a MacBook Pro running Mountain Lion, and in the process found that most of my conversion software no longer works right or at all. I was really quite fond of FFMpegX, which is no longer, and VisualHub (I know, no longer updated) completely stopped working.

I do use MPEG Streamclip and it's okay, but I like having several tools at my disposal. Does anyone have any recs for converters?

From:

beccatoria

I'm not a mac user, but I've used Avidemux on both Windows and Linux with good results and I know it's also available for Mac?

Also I believe that FFMPegX is a GUI interface for the command line version of ffmpeg. I don't know if it's ffmpeg itself that's no longer working on your mac or just the GUI. If the latter, you can probably use ffmpeg in a terminal if you learn some of the basic commands/arguments. I do that sometimes on Linux and when I started I'd basically never used a terminal for ANYTHING before. It sounds more intimidating than it really is, and ffmpeg is a really solid converter.

From:

rhivolution

Wicked, thanks--I'll have to give Avidemux a try. I tried to install the command line ffmpeg but ran into issues, so I'll have to give it another go sometime when I'm in less of a rush and have more time to play!

From:

thirdblindmouse

I'm considering making actual physical clips for a project I'll be working on later this year, and I've never done this before on Linux. (I usually import the entire episode or movie into my vidding program.) I worry about video quality degradation -- I usually work from fairly low quality files to start with, and of course I need reasonably sized files with reasonably dense key framing. Any recommendations?

From:

seekingferret

I use Avidemux for clipping. I typically pick all my clips out and add them to the conversion queue, and then do all the transcoding at once when I'm done clipping, so I can just walk away and let it run.

At the moment I'm transcoding with FFV1 codec, which obviously does not produce 'reasonably sized files', but all the lossier codecs I've played with have posed weird skipping problems for kdenlive, and I have plenty of room on my external HD. So I dunno, ask someone else about that part. But Avidemux I like.

From:

beccatoria

Hey, just found this thanks to the new index! Hoorah, Linux solidarity!

I second the suggestion of using AviDemux. I don't personally clip that much but when I had a project that required it, that's what I used. If you go from keyframe to keyframe you can actually just cut up your video file into smaller clips without re-endoding them at all, so there'll be no loss of quality. To do that, open the video file in Avidemux, and in the left hand bar, leave both the audio and video codecs as "copy" and choose the same container (avi, mp4 or whatever). The thing is, this'll only work if your in- and out-points are keyframes. At the bottom of the window there are a number of buttons including play, stop, etc., but also "next keyframe" and "previous keyframe". There are also buttons to set the in and out points of your selection. (Sorry if that was a bit basic explaining where everything is; wasn't sure whether or not you've ever used avidemux before!)

If you do want to re-encode for whatever reason, my honest experience is that if you encode with h264 at something crazy like 8000kbps, your new files are visually indistinguishable. Though of course that has size consequences. If you encode at about 3000kpbs (which is what I do when I'm in that situation) then the degredation is generally at the level where you have to pause the encoded file and start looking at the pixelation patterns to notice the loss of quality, though it's visible.

Finally, I think I remember you saying you use Blender, which I have no experience with, but I know in Cinelerra, Lightworks and in some other video editors, there's a function to "virtually" clip within the programme. It's essentially like marking out the part of the clip you want to drop on the timeline, except you drop it into a bin or a library within the programme instead. It's not a real clip, just a notation of where the in-and-out points are, but you can drag it back to the timeline as IF it were a real clip.

From:

thirdblindmouse

That's two for AviDemux. I think I'll give those strategies a try.

Blender doesn't separate things out the way it sounds like Cinelerra does. I do all my virtual clipping off the edge of the timeline (automatically, when I can) and keep clips there, but for this project I'm thinking it might be useful to have actual clips instead of episodes on my hard drive. I might be wrong, but either way, I thank you and

seekingferret for the advice. It should come in handy -- if not for this project, then for another one. :)

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